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America The Greatest Country on Earth
All the countries rate better than the U.S. because they send their criminals, bums and unskilled people to hear where they March in our streets, demand their rights and demand that they be recognized as U.S. citizens.
If anything maybe we should give all of them illegal bums the survey to show them that they are in the WRONG country.
Think it will work?
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America The Greatest Country on Earth
Ncrunch
So would a flat rate paid person work as hard as a person who earns more from merit and reputation of their performance? I think I will take a U.S. doctor any day.
College? well you get what you pay for and if people are standing in line to attend your school and you raise the costs and they still stand in line and you have a reputation for placing students in high paying jobs, I rather pay for the education. Anyone can sit in a classroom for four years and get a degree not everyone gets an education.
Free Enterprise has it merits and its downfalls, but Socialism has never appealed to me at all.
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America The Greatest Country on Earth
NC
I was being sarcastic and not aiming at you, trying tomake apoint.
33.3% in taxes to live here andhave the roads to travel on, Schools, choices in te millions, Fire depts, Police depts, Libraries, Programs to help when you are down on your Luck, Veterans Homes, some of the best hospitals and research centers in the World, Space Program where much of the World's Technology comes from, a State and a Federal Military that will not only repair your roads during floods and be there to help during Hurricanes and other diasters but also stands ready to protect and to serve us, Mass Transit, and on and on. We have what most countries wouldn't even know how to dream about. I'll pay the 33.3% gladly.
I'll take the Good Ole U.S. of A over Canada or any other country in the world. We are envied by many and they will try and tell you how bad we have it, before you judge go to a third world country see the sick, the unemployed, the poverty the lack of Spirit in the eyes.
God Bless the U.S.
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America The Greatest Country on Earth
Chief
What we pay in taxes today, thanks to Reagan and Bush is far less than what I use to pay. At least on the federal Level.
Up until about 1982 there was a tax increase on your pay for every $50 earned. You could actaully get a Payraise and take home LESS money, I did a couple of times. President Regan forced a Bill thru that SIMPLIFIED the tax system. Now there are only Three brackets and they are much further spaced. I pay a Helluva lot less in Federal Taxes than I did before.
As far as State and Local Taxes, well as long as we demand for more and more programs and for the Government to become an Insurance Agency, we will be paying more in Taxes. I watched last night where there are 11 million Millionaire households in the U.S. now. Grant it, if you consider the buying power of today versus that of 1983, a Million isn't really that much any more. But stay with me here. After the Reagan Simplified Tax Bill and Min wages were $3.35 per hour, now compare that today and one site claims that the minimum wage has 33% less buying power than in early 80s.
A quick sample of this is simple. Houses in your area sold for how much in 1982? Automobiles? food? clothing etc? What was your monthly pay? your total basic bills? the percentage. If you take the time to do some calculations, the million dollars of todays is about equal to about $400,000 of 24 years ago.
Now my point, take the Tax liability of the million dollar earnings today and it is far less than 24 years ago, based on buying power and that is the real index.
That is what is nice about debt... your debt actually decreases in value and as your earnings adjust, the debt ratio drops. Banks use Interest to offset this and term to ensure profitbility.
You and I have control over the Tax rates for State and Local Govt. Now calculate those 14 million illegals, leeching into OUR Education system, Health Care and Housing etc. Unless you are profiting from hiring Illegals, it is costing you and I money, for the companies who hire they save in wages and libilities and that offsets the cost taken out of their taxes. Our taxes could be alot less if we didn't have to pay for deadheads leeching on our system.
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America The Greatest Country on Earth
Chief
Yes! SIMPLIFIED, the Federal Tax is much more SIMPLIFIED than what it was pre 1982.
YES! you will be working into June this year to eliminate your Tax burden, but that TAX burden is NOT the result of Federal Govt but more over Local and State. It is the accumulation of Sales Taxes, Payroll taxes, property taxes, Fuel Tax, consumtion taxes, sin taxes etc. We the comsumer has set the demands. Look at 9-11, Jesus, suddenly the Government was leaned on to become an Insurance agent and pay people for their losses. Say WHAT? People had their own Insurances and so didn't the Buildings, why was Government called upon at all? Who foots the bill? Now look at Katrina and why again was the Government called upon? We want government to feed us, protect us, help us, bail us out, lead us, think for us and then when we get the Bills we complain? No! Chief I am NOT trying to be funny nor am I trying to be a comedian, people get what they ask for.
Hillary Clinton may run for Presiden, after her husband sold us out to China, missing FBI Files, S&L Scandals, Loans, Rapes, dozens of Dead people and questionable circumstances, Pardon gates, Chinese in the White House, Chinese stealing Top Secrets in Los Alamos and trashing the White House and on and on we even have people who will support the witch. You have Ted kennedy a man who commited a Murder in every sense who gets re-elected term after term. Why? because too many of us just sit on our asses waiting for someone else to find the problems, fix them, write the letters, form the demostrations, speak out, vote and whatever else it would take to make the changes.
60% of this Nation feel NO need to Vote, 60% and then there is belly-aching for the entire term of the next Administration and yet 60% do NOT VOTE. I'll bet out of the 40% that do, you have 20% who can't read well, understand English, know who they are really voting for, know who the Current Senators of their state are. We have problems and it sure is not with Government it is with US. We get what we deserve.
Because this Nation has formed a 'I don't care' attitude, government has gotten longer reins and no one to really tug on them. We have abuses and we have people in Office who seek power. Look at the Mayor of N.O. talk about a total waste of flesh and blood. He is as worthless as tits on a Bull, but he was great at leading the charge of putting the blame on the Bush administration.
We need to Vote, ALL of us, for christs sake people in Iraq were being killed while standing in the voting lines and we sit in our living rooms bitching because we don't like something and then we get up and grab another Beer or switch the channel.
Cheif I really am not trying to be funny and have never been more serious, the Solutions start with you and me.
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America The Greatest Country on Earth
NC
Nothing personnal, but people thought Iraq had no chance in making it, because they could only think like Tribes and not as a Nation, Hell, I think they may be better off than us in some aspects. Here in America we worry more about ourselves and think about ourselves and never ask how we are as a Nation, how far has this Nation gone, what has this nation achieved? we think as Individuals and not as a Nation at least the Itaqis think as tribes.
I have Three daughters, one is still in school and two are seeking their dreams, BOTH have attended colleges of their choice. My wife has a car, I have a car, two of my kids have cars. I have 3 JD Tractors, One Snow Mobile and toys. I live where I want, I work where I want to, I do what I want. I hear planes fly over head and I go about my daily business because I know some of those planes are military and they are OURS. I look at the young Americans and what the Navy has to offer them and I look at our fleets as compared to 100 years ago. I look at our Space Advancements, our Medical Achievements. damn not too many years ago I remember when Dr Barnard did the first heart transplant and the patient lived for about 30 days, I know a guy down the road who had a heart transpalnt 16 years ago. I look at that Lady who just had a 160 pound tumor removed or the lady who just had a New face. I look at the absenece of so many deseases that use to plague us. I look at where we are today and I think it has been worth every penny. Look at what we are doing right now, no stamps needed no long waits for replies. My buddies in Afghanistan and Iraq are just an email away. Everyone has a .mil address instead of APO and FPO. They still have the APO and FPO if you want to mail packages etc but communications is unreal just look at the all0in-one cell phones. I watch one of 180 plus channels, crystal clear and not like I am outside during a snow storm watching thru a screen door and only getting ONE channel in Black and white. I have no less than 15 guns in my house and I have no idea how many rounds of ammunition, all Legal. I can Vote, I write letters of dissatisfaction. People can bash their leaders and say what they want. That is what I pay for. Aircraft carriers and the planes are not cheap and either is Freedom. I am happy to pay and I am paying less, much less than what the tax burdens were 24 years ago.
Maybe we should stop just once a year a look back at the ground we as a nation have covered and a Nation is all of the people within her, all of their Hopes and their Dreams and the advancements made as they seek them out.
Would you rather pay NO TAXES and live in the drought stricten regions of Africa? China? I think I like it right where I am at.We thepeople are the Check and the balance of our Government and if we choose to sit and do nothing, our return is the same.
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America The Greatest Country on Earth
Horse
I don't know if you are responsible but many of us are.
I was talking to a fellow worker the other day about the ILLEGAL INVADERS and a lady near by said ' I don't like talking about politics" I said 'Good! we aren't talking with you"
I have heard that statement so often and it is like saying politics is bad, should only be discussed in the dark or when you are alone and with no body.
My mom would go to Town Meetings and carry a bat. She spoke her piece and she raised Hell when something was said that was against her grain. She spent the years of World War II on the Hospital Ship U.S. Acadia and not too many people men or women could shut my mom up. I admired her for her spunk. This Nation needs 100 million more like my Mom. Government does what it does because it CAN. We, the people can change whatever we want to change, you read about these people damn near everyday. I have read about 10 year olds with spunk and how they made a difference. For too many of us in this Nation, they are just that STORIES and then we move on to our next destraction.
Horse how many people do you think you have affected right here on TP? Porobably more than you give yourself credit for and even if it is only one, then it os ONE more than what it would have been if you hadn't gotten involved. one brick at a time.
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America The Greatest Country on Earth
Chief
Whoa! we sure are Spirited.
Several years ago I went to Albany NY and I listened to the Greens Movement and a Sentator Bilden who claimed that the passage of the Federal Income Tax Amendment was illegal. I beleive from the top of my head that is the 16 th amendment which was passed by te Senate in February of 1913.I listened and I went on line and I did a lot of research on the so called Consumption Tax only laws. Sen Bilden claimed that the Ratification process which demand that 75% of all states ratify a Bill exactly as it is written before it can be made into an Amendment was NOT accomplished. He claimed he went to every single state (which were states in 1913) and researched their archives to find proof that they Ratified the Bill as written. He claims less than 27 states actually passed the Bill thru ratification, so he asked then how di it come to be an Amendment idf 75% did NOT pass it? so he went to the Federal Senate Logs and found NO ENTRY on a Senate Floor Vote for the 16th Amendment. Well! He sure put on a good talk and he claimed that all taxes unless they are consumption taxes or proportional taxes are ILLEGAL.
I knew a Judge who had not paid Federal Income tax in over 11 years and after he died he had a Court House named after him. I to this day have no idea how much of all this is fact or not. I was never able to find anything that really came out and said THE TAXES ARE ILLEGAL.
Chief you sound like you have lost Property or something. I have some acreage, not a lot but I do have some. I do no know what you are implying. I beleive we had a thread a few weeks back where we all talked about Emient Domain and I do know there is some Federal Investigation going on right now over the claims of Malls etc. I went to the websites that the person from NJ had posted and I read them. I did not find an abundance of abuse for the chart was all of the abuse Nationwide for the last 30 years or so. So fill me in, what is it that has you doing the ole Fire dance.
I am content and I am happy with my Federal Tax Load. I am not happy with the Local Taxes nor am I Happy with the Sin Tax, rooms and meal tax, sales tax, State Income tax or many other taxes that Tax Crazy Howard Dean Implemented or raised. School Taxes? I fight them all of the time and have gone head to head with our Superentendant many times. These are Taxes I am able to fight on a more one on one level and I do, I go to the Town Meetings and I stir up a lot of commotion and my Town has voted Down the budget almost every single year. Our problem, is the Union School Districts, you can get one Town to hear you, but it is hard to be able to be heard in every town of the Union School District. The Budget is usually released just days before Town Meeting and that doesn't give much time to stir up the minds of the voters in all of the towns. I still do not understand how there can be a Union of any kind between the taxpayer and the reciepent of the Taxpayers money. Kinda takes the control from the taxpayer and forces crap onto us that we do not want.
I got a bllgame to go to Daughter is pitching. So will check in later. i am interested to hear what is bugging you.
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America The Greatest Country on Earth
Peters
First if the shoe fits, otherwise no disrespect intended.
I have never witnessed what you refer to, maybe it is only near the border and with Americans who are ticked that the Canadians aree coming down and taking some of the Good Jobs. Maybe it wasn't a boast as much as it was a complaint aimed at you. I have a Canadian who is in charge and he has a Green card. His kids are dual citizens and that does piss me off. Hey! make a choice and then live with it. To sit with dual citizenship or to stay with Green Cards indefinitely, if your loyalty is with Canada, go back to Canada. Otherwise make an effort to become a U.S. Citizen. It makes me believe that he is waiting to see who is going to offer him a prize or something. He serves neither country and he is able to take from either. I bust his chops every chance I get. I see no loyalty either way from him and I wonder how a man can live without a country. So maybe the workers you worked with Peters, saw that. Maybe not. If you are Loyal to Canada and you come here. I have no problem, if you are Canadian and you come here and show Loyalty to the U.S. I still have no problem, but if you are Canadian and you come here and show Loyalty to neither, get your sorry ass out of my country and go leech somehweres else.
I was up near St Henri and the exchanged at the time was 50% and I tried to buy something and they insisted there was No exchange and if I wanted it, I would pay FULL price. I told them that was illegal and stealing and they smiled at me and said. Not here it isn't.
I have had many experiences such as that in Canada and don't go there becuse of it. The Quebec side has more their share of flaming a--holes. Ontario is a Night and Day different. I am still treated as a tourist and after all, I am. So if you come to the U.S. and you are keeping your Canadian Citizenship, then you are nothing more than a TOURIST as well. Hell! around these parts we don't like Flatlanders regardless which state they come from, down South they hate Yankees and in the Souther MidWest it is Wetbacks and in the Mid and northern midwest it is Redskins and in some places it is everybody not from there.
Yeah! I am American and Damn Proud of it and MY country the good Ole U.S. of A. has been there to help just about every other country there is. Seems the help we got after Katrina or 9-11 was token at best.
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America The Greatest Country on Earth
Hey!
I wasn't trying to be hateful to anyone, that is why I said if the shoe fits. I did not know Peters circumstances. The rest was my opinion.
Bill Cosby once did a skit on Predjudice and when was finished, there was NO LEFT standing, for everyone is Predjudice, it is just some will admit it while others deny it.
I also gave an example where I as an American was treated like crap in Canada and they same mood that Peters was mentions about the narcissistic Americans, I felt the same way in Canada.
Birds of a feather, flock together and they have no clue how they are treating the ones who are different, it comes to natuarlly.
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America The Greatest Country on Earth
Peters
A man without a country is JUST like a man without Faith, he just roams and belongs NOWHERE.
God is the creator, but while you are here you are to be a person that doesn't just SERVE God but serves mankind as well. If God wants us to only serve him, then would I not be a slave? I do not think that is God's intent. God wants us to serve him by following his example, not by casting away all that is here.
Loyalty is only good if you have something to be Loyal to. Honor, Pride, Courage, Patriotism, Faith, Morals are all God created qualities that can make a person a decent person and without them a person is merely just that, a person.
To have a country and to show Loyalty to one's country is not a Blind Faith but will bring the good out in a person. It will feed determination, Honor, Pride, Courage, Morals and YES! even Faith. A man without a country has no real reason to live except for manmade reasons.
You can serve God and still be an Outstanding Canadian or American, it is those who lack one or the other that have questionable characters. Freedom has never been granted to any man by GOD, it has been earned each and every time. All the Commandments only exsist if Man chooses to allow them to exsist and there are times the sword needs to be taken from its scabbard in order for the Bible to survive. I do not for single second beleive that God wants me to just kneel down and allow another man to take my life from me, a life that was given to me by my Creator but only I can protect. I can Pray from now to Hell freezes over, but it will be My actions or actions of others who are lookingout for me that wil allow me to survive. God will not mingle. He is there for my judgement day and I will face him alone as will everyone. That is the time he will either allow me to enter or give me the swift boot.
Man was given two things above the animal kingdom, 1. the ability to have reason. 2. the ability to have logic. Both of which I use to survive. It is good to beleive in God, it is BLIND FAITH to think God is going to take care of you. That my friend, is a job that God gave to you to do.
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America The Greatest Country on Earth
Murf
Please reread my post, I referred to Quebec and I have had many such experiences, mostly in the Montreal area. I did say that Ontario is Night and Day different from Quebec, but I am still a tourtist there and usually treated as such. The hospitality is outstanding in Ottawa area but I am still a tourist and that is what I was trying to establish. That Peters may be jumping the gun a tad on how Americans are eager to claim they are such. I have known many a Canadian with the same attitude.
Yes! Canada has been helpful to us, my reference is to all countries, when I said we have helped just about every single country, I was looking at the comparision of who helped US when we needed it. Where were all of the other countries. I was NOT just picking on Canada. I used Canada as reference because I live close by and been ther emany many times.
I then said Birds of a feather flock together and I met that to another American there was no boasting but maybe to a Canadian who thinks a wee different, has different Ideas etc, yeah they may think that about us.
How many here have driven 18 wheelers? who are the craziest, rude, speed demon, drivers ever to hit the black top? yup! the Canadians, 90 mph in a blinding snowstorm, when the Speed limit is 70 Candians think that is Kilometers.
Lake Champlain is a nightmare when the Canadians have Holiday. Do I hate them? My grandfather's name, (my fishing idol) was Donet Bousquet, so you tell me......
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America The Greatest Country on Earth
Murf
Not to mention my Idols were not Espisito or ORR, but Grant Fuhr, Patrick Roy, Penny, Messier, Lemieux and sever others. my favorite teams. Oilers, Old Flames when they were Calgary and the Cannucks.
I hate the Canadians the same way I hate the friggin Navy. a Squid is the LOWEST form of Marine Life. My two front teeth were taken by a chair controled by an Seaman at Ft DeRussey just a few miles up from Pearl. Then again I would die for a Navy Corpsman, bravest assholes this world has ever known.
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America The Greatest Country on Earth
JDC
No! the same God. The Bible was written over a period of 1600 years and by over 60 authors. Thru the Dark Ages much was translated to fit the needs of the Kings. Even the Old Testament is not a 100% accurate translation. Man was hopingthe Dead Sea Scrolls would answer many of the unanswered questions. Not yet.
God is the heart of man.
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America The Greatest Country on Earth
So why then Peters did Jesus look at the Isrealites and say they were the chosen people. That refers to a people and not to an indiviual and it refers to a country of people.
God allowed the Red Sea to spread open so they could make good their escape and then closed the sea upon their enemies. If that isn't serving with a sword, then I do not know what is. Evil is NOT to be ignored but to be destroyed.
The Bible can say whatever you want the Bibe to say, I will use your example you said 'Everything in the world relates to them selves or has no value." and isn't that EXACTLY what YOU are doing or saying? You live for the Bible and only the bible and you also said "My loyalty is to God and my citizenship is in the Kingdom of God. What internal importance is my citizenship here on earth? What credit will it be to you or I when we stand in front of Christ in judgment that we were Americans? I think we need to focus on what we are to do and care about, not the incidentals." You are a SLAVE to your beliefs and you say that there is NO LOYALTY to your fellow man and only to God. You are preaching to me exactly what you dislike about Americans.
I am a very proud American and unlike the Crusaders who buthered and raped in the name of God, or unlike the U.K. who even to this day has a problem between the Protestants and the Catholics and have bombed each other and killed each other in the name of a different faith.
The Quaran runs countries and treats women likea pieces of garbage. When a man grows tired of his wife, he may pour gasoline on her and touch her off. IT is NOT illegal in Arab states, the very same areas where Jesus came and Preached. So Peters tell me, whose Faith is the True and Honest Faith?
Is it wrong for people to worship a Cow? Not to the people who worship the cow it isn't. So do you pass judgement on others? I think you do and I think we all do. God is the Heart of man and it is what gives you your drive to continue, but Man is made of more than just a Heart and God also gave man Wisdom and the ability to use it.
I carry God with me, wherever I go but I do not let it control me to the point I am naive. If you hit me, I will most certainly hit you back and I will not turn the cheek and walk away.
I do not feel for a minute that Loyalty to ones country is wrong or even sinful. I said it some time back, if you believe you have not committed a sin, then you have not. Mormons were able to have multiple wives and they felt it was OK and acceptable and a Catholic did not believe in Devorce. Peters religion is man made and as I said the Bible was written over a period of 1600 years and by over 60 authors, so how can you prove what God really said unless you have some first hand writtings? Everything in any religion is based on interputation. Unless they had Tape recorders and you are able to hear Jesus's very own words you are responding to translations and hear say, God is in your heart and you only need to listen to your heart. People in Iraq live and die by the Quaran and that is an interputation and yet people die for it. How can you or anyone for that matter say it is words of god when there is no proof that God or Jesus ever said any of it?
I am not trying to insult you Peters, I admire your dedication and your Faith and there is nothing wrong with Faith unless it is misued. I never understood what a Religous War was, it sounds like a Jumbo Shrimp, or Semi Truck.
When Moses recieved the Ten Commandments, and it said Thou shall not kill, how does anyone know Moses really talked to God or Moses was on his own Mission like Joseph Smith?
I beleive the Iraq War is a war with good intentions and 24 million people have a right to live and chose as they want, they should NOT have to live in fear and religous suppression. Does your faith say that Americans are wrong by freeing the people of Iraq from the tyranny of Saddam, Qusay and Quday? Those three men were the worst WMDs next to Hitler. They may have been responsible for up to 10 million deaths over 30 years. Does you faith say to turn the cheek and walk away when someone is asking for help, when that help might involve killing evil people?
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America The Greatest Country on Earth
Murf
From Cobbleskil NY down 88 to Binghamton and then down 81 to Ravin Pa has to be some of the worst road in te Winter that this country can offer. I would be doing 20 mph and visibility was about 6 feet in front of my hood and them Cannucks would sail past me at 70.
SG
Duck? have you ever tried to duck a chair at full throttle? You need t do alot of ducking.
My favorite quote comes from General Patton "Wars are not won by you dying for your country, they are won by making the other bastards die for theirs" The U.S. is a peaceful conutry and has always stepped in to lend a hand. I am Proud of that. Where would the world be today if te U.S. did not get involved in WWI or WWII, after all the U.K. was out of planes and skilled pilots and the channel was growing smaller each day. Where would France be if we decided not to have a Normandy or Italy if we never marched in to Sicily? I am not saying that the U.S. did it all by herself, but like Teddy at San Juan Hill, sometimes it takes someone to grab the Flag and lead the way. Others will get motivated and follow. I find it amazing how much motivation can come from looking at that Flag (yours or mine) in battle. at our Firebase we had one on a crooked ole pole and yet now and again we all looked at it and got our motivation and determination, all from a simple piece of cloth that did nothing more than represent something different to everyone who looked at it. Some saw long Island or the Green Mountains or Rockies, others saw the desert of Arizonia or whatever. Just simply amazes me. Peters the Bible is a lot like the Flag. keep your faith, you are a better person becasue of it, I am a better person because of my beliefs.
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America The Greatest Country on Earth
Murf
Your small points were understood. Now allow me to pass on a few small points. We were THERE long before we were there. As a pilot I am sure you have heard of the HUMP? As a Pilot I am sure they talked to you about the American Volunteers who went to England and flew for the RAF because England was on her knees and out of pilots. As a Historian it was Americans who were sending War Materials via the Altantic and on to GB. The U.S. was there in Spirit and in manpower and in material long before the decalration of war ever pass over the lips of Roosevelt. Roosevelt didn't want war but as we were in Cambodia and Laos long before we were in Cambodia and Laos, we were there. The Americans came in fresh and with fresh materials, and as they did in WWI they lifted the spirits.
It wasn't about outspending it was about determination and what the Russians said about Americans pretty well sums it up and I will have to paraphrase "What makes the Americans so tough of an advisary is there War Doctrines, what makes them so hard to beat is that they don't follow their War Doctrine."
It doesn't have to be the U.S. it could be anyone who has the means. You piss someone off bad enough and if they have the means, they will defeat you. England was out of manpower, most were sitting in German POW camps. Their chocie of bombing during daylight hours had the Americans baffled, for we choose to bomb at night. So when we did join up with them, it was a round the clock bombing of Germany and then Germany being on the defense no longer could muster any more agressive acts against England, they rsorted to Technology and the V-1 and tze V-2.
Horse
I do not beleive Afghanistan was an invasion nor no I beleive that Iraq was a misbegotten aggression. Last night on A&E I watched the Lives of the Men from Lima Company. Iraq is a new and different type of wart and needs to be fought differently. We are adapting. It is hard to find an enemy when they shed their uniforms, fly no flag and hide in womens' gurkas. They are desperate and they will soon subdue, I rather fight the war there than wait for it to come here and here it surly would come. I strongly believe that a decent offense is worth far more the best defense. Saddam is out of power and Iraq will have to learn to think like a Nation and not like tribes. This will take time, but if the adjustments aren't made, the world will never ever be at Peace. Horse go to this website http://www.defendamerica.mil/iraq/rebuilding.html and see what we have accomplished. Remember the media only reports on burning houses, there is so much that our men and women are accompkishing and not getting any recognition for it hurts. I am determine to ensure that we see this through and I have no doubt that 20 years from now, it will be a Great World in the Middle East. Woman are back in schools in Afghanistan, they are teaching and learning, they are back in decent jobs, and they are able to walk down the street without fear. We offered them a hand and we offered them a chance, it is up to them to do with those chances as they may. Go to the site and see what the lives have really been given up for. Freedom is not Free and never has been and God doesn't grant any man Freedom, Man has to gain his freedom before he gain his Faith. Iraq is a war that has devided this nation, but I strongly support it and the cause. 17 U.N. Resoulutions totally ignored, Weapon Inspectors kicked out after they had been led around like a Bull with a nose ring, Invasion of another country, SCUDs fired into Kuwait, Suadia, and Isreal, People massacred because they believed differently or just because Saddam and his sons enjoyed torture and killing. Saddam had a room full of his men once and he read the names off of about 50 of them and falsley accused them of treason. Suddenly one man stood up and shouted We love Saddam, saddam looked at the remaining men and said " Ah! so you love me, tomoorw to show your love for me, you will be the firing squad and kill the others" Qusay if you didn't do well in sports, he tortured you or killed you. One neat little fun thing they liked to do was tie your hands behind your back, walk you to the top of a building and push you off. These astrocities have stooped, why? because the U.S. and U.K. stood firmly against these acts and strongly we will continue to stand. It is a just war. There are 24 million good reasons in Iraq alone.
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Murf
I have only two words for your last two posts.
Semper Fidelis
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KT
Hitler thinking he was right is not what I was referring to, I was referring to a collective group such as the Mayans, Incas or the Aztecs and their human sacrifices.
Did God, thru an Angel not ask Adam to slay his son to show his love for God and his willingness to give up everything for that love? Do you really think that an all Loving God would even consider a Sacrifice of any kind as a symbol of love?
You are right that Bible has not been proven to be false nor has it been proven to be the EXACT words of Christ or God.
I could live near you all of my life and I could write a book about you and I would only be able to write what I saw, I could easily allow myself to put in my own opinions.
Don't get me wrong, I do not challenge the exsistance of God, for I feel he is very real. Life is way to complex to be here by chance. I do beleive that man with limited volcabularies weren't often able to quote others perfectly. Man has faults and if you told a story to someone who could NOT write and they retold the story to someone who could, much would be lost.
Native Americans believe in Mother Earth and the Great Spirit, are they going to Hell because they took a False God before them?
Man needs religion, he has to have it for exsistance. He needs to feel calm that his loved ones go to a better place. That he has purpose. I think alot of religion is strictly for feel good reasons. God loves us and he surly created us, but our actions belong only to us. Others feel that need to stuff the body, or let it sit and decay. Many cultures have different beliefs in the after life, are they evil for their beliefs? NO! Hitler was a bit to far out to use it as a comparision to what I was meaning.
I live only a few miles from where Joseph Smith claimed to have seen and spoke to the Angel that created the Mormon religion. I have hunted that area and I have never seen any Angels. I am not trying to be rude, for I have had things happen to me, that without question was from the other side. How much is exaggerated for personnel gain and how much is true is what I am asking.
I stil feel man can carry his Faith with him and does NOT need to go into a Fancy Church, decorated in Marble and Gold to worship his or her God.
Catholics are sure not without sin, the very ones who teach us are the ones not listening to their own words, did that not happen to Jesus as well? Were the religous ones of the time not preaching to every one, the Messiah is coming, the Messiah is coming and then when he stood before them, they condemed him and had him crucified. I think Faith and Religion are two seperate things. Faith I carry with me and I pray silently to God, Religion is the gathering of the masses. Evangelists make a fortune off of man's weakness and his desire to become spiritually stronger.
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Denis
regardless, you still have to TRY.
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Ann
This country is a fantastic country whether you are a Pot smoking hippie or a tractor driver. Some just take longer to realize how well they have it. Sometimes it takes a loss of some of your freedoms for you to realize just how fortunate you were before. People muture and as they do their attitudes and values of life do as well. The country does't change for the Tractor driver, it is the same country. You will get out of it, exactly what you put into it. If you put nothing into it, to improve it or to help it, then you will get the same in return.
JDC
you said
"The argument could be made that if the people of Iraq were so desperate to rise up, the opportunity was certainly there." wasit really? How do rise up against a Dictator who controls and Army and has tanks and guns and people working for him just like the SS? You have no guns to defend your self or even to arm yourself. You do not know who you can trust and who you can't because many among you are on Saddam's payroll. How do you organize when the odds are so great against you? it was tried and the executions were moments after the trials. These people lived a fear you can only sit and TRY to imagine and still never be close to what it was like.
You can't please all of the people all of the time you can please some of the people some of the time. The military is made of the people who want to do something and they are lead by the people who want to do something and my suggestions has always been if you do not want to be involved, you don't have to. We don't draft anymore. If you want Peace I suggest you spend some time with the Peace Corps and see if you gain any ground. If you care not to be involved period and only make judgements on others performance, I would suggest stay on the couch in front of the boob tube. Lead, Follow or get the Hell out of the way. (sorry Murf, stole that from the 82nd Airborne)
Saddam was NEVER a U.S. Lacky. Was never involved with the U.S. you need to go and do some research. He was a Ba'ath member who idolized Hitler and the SS and grew from support from France and later Russia. The weapons in Iraq are French and Russian, it was Russian Sciencetists working with Saddam. Saddam stood against the U.S. from day one because we supported Isreal.
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JDC
Famous handshake? there was NO FAMOUS handshake, you can call it what you want, but if was far from famous and had no more meaning than a handshake with Ho Chi Minh or Nikta Kruschev. For Christs sake man, quit trying to make mountains out of little tiny ant hills. Rumsfield shook his hand. Hell I have shaken hands of people I have hated and smiled too. Big friggin deal. History is full of such hand shakes, now you are trying to make a DeVinci Code link to the past and claim it had connections? Good God, I have heard weak arguements before but you are running a close second.
I did very little research after reading your post but here is a sentence from a source and I will tell you it was Steven Shalom, hmmmm "France became the major source of Iraq's high-tech weaponry, in no small part to protect its financial stake in that country. The Soviet Union was Iraq's largest weapon's supplier, while jockeying for influence in both capitals. Israel provided arms to Iran, hoping to bleed the combatants by prolonging the war. And at least ten nations sold arms to both of the warring sides."
Now JDC if you want to quote a reliable source for your accusations, i will gladly go and read them. I am not interested in the views of a media reporter or the such and if you would care to provide real proof that the U.S. Govt s "had a vested in interest in supporting Iraq and we did supply biological,chemical and other technologies."
We get no oil to speak of from Iraq or Iran and never have, so what is the vested interest you refer to? (Now if a company in the U.S. did, that is NOT the govt. If that bothers you than Clinton giving 600 Super Computers, the W-88 Nuclear multi strike warhead and technology for delivery systems, to China, should have you rolling on the floor in fits of rage.)Going after a dictator who had the 4th largest Army in the world? Turning Iraq against Khomeni? Yeah! the U.S. plays cards with countries in the interest of World Security. Not in personnal gain. But if you have other evidence, I would like to read it. I am not interested in a writer's opinion and only facts will be considered.
So as I said before, do some research and come back when you have a good arguement, here say or opinion is not a basis for a good arguement. Steven Shalom is a NOBODY and I found NO evidence that the U.S. was anything close to what you say.
And as I said before, if you do not wear the uniform, do not be quick to judge those who do, we do not think like you and don't want to. No! we are not brain-washed, we chose in our lives to do something and we are. We have always been judged by those who sit and jump to conclusions and dream of a fantasy world that does not exsist. Freedom has to be fought for and people die in fights. Now here is some amusing numbers for you, if the number of killed in Iraq is what bothers you then you should research how many U.S. citizens die each and every year in U.S. Hospitals. Now to make it more interesting change the word die into killed. You will find the number to be about 175,000. Yes! that is right 175,000 and to get you started since death bothers you so much, I will give you the first web site, written by doctors and published in JAMA http://www.healingdaily.com/Doctors-Are-The-Third-Leading-Cause-of-Death-in-the-US.htm
If the reports on the American dead isn't what bothers you, then what is your problem? Another little fact, more die each year from drowning in swiming pools than Americans die in Iraq. Almost as many die from falling down stairs as have died annually in Iraq. So there are many other death statistics that you JDC could get up off your ass and do something about. Right here in the U.S. no uniform required, no oathes just maybe some volunteer work. Maybe you could help some of the elderly so they don't fall down stairs and become the next victim or help put up fences around pools etc. Put your energy to work where it could do some good and quit bitching about stuff you or I have no ability or entitlement to know. Better yet if you want entitlement, then that would take years to gain the clearances, the faith of the others to trust you with such information and then you would also have to be sworn to secrecy and live a second life totally for your country.
JDC your brain could not process anywhere enough of the data that you demand to know. You think World Affairs and International Security is going to be published in Newsweek? Do you think if you knew something you little ole JDC in anywheres USA is going to be able to do anything about it? do you think you could ever know all you think you ever need to know and be happy? Are you going to say I am a puppet for not wanting to know?  , I know my limitations and I don't need to know how much water is behind the damn, only that there isn't any cracks. I leave the rest to the Engineers and I am usre you do as well. Do you worry about the bridges when you cross them? No because you have faith that everything was done right and that the Govt inspected it as well. So why do you attack the govt over issues you have no knowledge or true understsanding of?
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JDC
Anyone who has to pat their own shoulder has some serious complexes.
Slacker? You call me a slacker? How very interesting, you hand does not feed me, so get a life and get off your lazy ass and make something of yourself other than a chronic complainer. I owe you nothing and you have probably been a taker your entire life. So you pay taxes well goody for you, so don't I and you have no glue how much I pay, so quit trying to measure a person by their net worth, you won't succeed very well. I am a salesman now out of choice and have done many things in my life, I do not feel the need to compare my life to yours and I really don't care if your dick is bigger. Whoppie for you.
Enjoy your life, I see you could not carry on an intelligent conversation for very long, I know I know my post was all rambling, of course it was to someone who has shit for brains.
Nice talking to you ya JDC. You need to gt a life. I am not retired yet.... You haven't paid very close attention at all now have you?
Good day and you will be ignored by me, please return the courtesy.
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